The case for universal basic dental care; Each $1 spent creates $1.60 of Govt cost savings and $4.50 of societal benefits; Inside the campaign to make it happen with Max Harris
Agree on the oath and the idea of punishment as a deterrent. But it should be a fair trial by informed judges. If, for example, policies have favoured asset prices of vested interests over human rights to housing, the resulting suffering to individuals and damage to society should be assessed and penalties imposed on those responsible.
These graphs are shocking. I agree that there's a case for a more universal policy, perhaps this would at least shift our culture around oral health for the better. It's not a sexy election policy, but a decent initiative.
As a senior, I have lived through and with the negative consequences of right-wing policies since the 1980’s. It is very rare to hear commentary today that uses the words ’social democracy’. It makes me so angry that policies for most people such as universal dental care are scorned by today’s politicians because they are so afraid of alienating the rich, right voting, multi-property owning me-first in our society. I fervently hope the younger generation can be motivated to vote against these weak, immoral politicians and change the political direction. I’m not holding my breath.
I hear you, Tony. I'll hold my breath for the both of us. I'm encouraged by the politically aware, socially responsible young people that I know through my young adult children.
💯. It’s rare to hear talk about what the right thing to do is without financial considerations being the first and foremost (and often only) consideration.
But as the great E. F. Schumacher argued, economics is only one of many lenses through which we can make ethical and value based decisions.
Sep 6, 2023·edited Sep 6, 2023Liked by Bernard Hickey
"Spending less on public dental care costs reduces the amount of the Government’s operational spending deficit and reduces public borrowing, which in turn reduces interest rates and mortgage rates (all other things not changing)."
Japan would seem to be an example of a country where this statement is not correct.
Maybe we need to change the way monetary policy is carried out, starting by working through the monetary policy implications of the fact that Aotearoa New Zealand is a sovereign currency issuing country.
Extending the principle of universal basic / collective services. YES. THANK YOU for saying this.
Raising the bar for everyone. YES!
Doing this doesn't have the same high administration costs of deciding who is eligible, enforcing categories of people. HELLO Nact, isn't reducing beurocracy one of your theme songs? Media should be all over that hypocrisy.
Build infrastructural and financial stability to ensure sustained support for collective services over time. Universal, stigma free, sustainable support.
Seems so obvious because we pretend that we live in a social democracy already.
I love the "but millionaires don't need dental" people turning on people knee-jerk defence, because of course they don't - if society is built on a model that prioritises building private health care facilities that only millionaires can afford to access.
I would argue that the essentials of life are not only PART of a social democracy, they are the very essence of a social democracy. They are the core principles that make up a true democracy.
Take OUT of the market essential services. YES!!! Essential services are too important to be left to the market. Housing market - but one case and point.
By removing essential services from the market, you shrink the role of market values - this is music to my ears.
Market values are too central in the way our society runs. HELLO. 🦋🦋🦋🦋
We need less individualism , less selfishness. Shrinking the role of the market values can build a more caring society.
THIS is the central issue turned irony that dominates the reality of all marginalised peoples who are "othered" by society.
When marginalised people stand up and say "hey society! you are forgetting to include me" priviledged society responds with "how dare you make it all about YOU - what makes you think you deserve special attention"
If everyone is included then you reduce, maybe even remove, the need for people to view their position as superior, and suddenly difference is no longer a threat.
I think this is such an important principle to explore.
If we are going to introduce universal anything, it's is essential that, at the core of ALL policies there is a fundamental, values system based principle that says "this is good for ALL of society."
We have to remove the us and them from policy making, otherwise society will remain in a constant turmoil of the priviledged feeling superior to, and threatened by the... not so priviledged.
And the not so priviledged will always be viewed - by the priviledged - as trouble makers who expect handouts.
Thank you, Bernard and Max. I feel like I dropped 20 pounds this morning.
A real Bridget Jones, "let's face it a bit of a crush now actually" Kafir Aghani and Eleanor Heaney moment.
To paraphrase FDR's old line "Voters won't remember who gave them a benefit, but they will remember who took it away" would serve Labour well. I'd love to see National try and claw universal free dental care back and win re-election once people began to consider this a fundamental benefit.
Universal benefits paid for by broad based taxes are the way to go, rather than hard to administer means tested benefits which ultimately lead to poverty shaming. This strategy has served Scandinavia well.
It's a shame the Labour Party wasted so much of it's political capital - imagine if they used their once 90%+ popularity ratings from 2019 - 2020 and subsequent majority in parliament to push things like this through. I think they'd be in a much stronger position defending their record on delivery while National would be in the tough position of explaining why they wanted to take these new hard won rights away.
I agree Nick. Even with their deteriorating poll results, this was a good opportunity for Labour to win back some support. Alas, they half-assed it again by stopping short of universality. Universal dental care would be about the easiest policy imaginable to defend in an election debate, regardless of the cost. Also, Luxon and National would have had to tread carefully with their criticism of it, or risk appearing callous.
Sure the Greens have a universal dental care policy but they're not realistically going to strip many centrist votes from National - they might just win a few more lefties from Labour.
I think it's also a harder sell for the Greens. If they've got billions spare in the budget, shouldn't they be using it to fight climate change and pollution rather than filling teeth?
More good discussion here, thanks Team Kaka. The question is how do we broaden the engagement, make it more inclusive? As a paying subscriber, I’m pleased to make as much of it as free to everyone as we can. I’m one of the older, reasonably secure participants, as I suspect a number of others here are. I like the cross link with Action Stations. How will we bring more working class people into the kōrero? How will learn to listen to the voice of those bearing the brunt of neoliberalism ?
What is the next service to tackle? I suggest electricity. The failure of the electricity industry to invest in maintenance, build new generation AND meet shows we a better way to guarantee people market is needed. Cut out the many extra layers required to ensure 'smooth' running of the system based on shared public interests (not profit). Also, incentivise community owned power generation to promote resilience (again, something the market won't provide for).
Am so glad to hear your interview with Max, and so impressed with the work that has resulted in Action Station becoming a voice for us all that can't be ignored
Re the graph of sugar consumption per capita why does the US have much higher obesity rates than NZ or Israel if its per capita sugar consumption is lower? Or is the US obesity maybe caused by high-fructose corn syrup in many food products?
Truth is simple, elegant and easy to understand.
If it doesn’t satisfy these conditions it is false.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
E=mc2(cX c). The math is complicated but in principle all it says is that energy and matter are interconvertible.
The only purpose of government is to serve its people- ALL its people WITHOUT FEAR or FAVOUR.
All politicians should have to take an oath to uphold the above with severe penalties for not upholding it.
The politics of today is anything but the truth. Labour, National and Act vie with each other for the most blatant lie.
Fact checking is a waste of time as nobody wants evidence. All they want is a sugar high.
For the Kaka Project I would suggest each party what they plan to do if they can’t deliver on their wild promises. Public self flagellation?
Agree on the oath and the idea of punishment as a deterrent. But it should be a fair trial by informed judges. If, for example, policies have favoured asset prices of vested interests over human rights to housing, the resulting suffering to individuals and damage to society should be assessed and penalties imposed on those responsible.
Ask instead of suggest
Action Station ..👍 Great initiative and so good to hear that the Universal Basic ideas are spreading .
The finishing comments by Max ring so true . Universal Social Democracy . Thanks for some good news .
These graphs are shocking. I agree that there's a case for a more universal policy, perhaps this would at least shift our culture around oral health for the better. It's not a sexy election policy, but a decent initiative.
Vote Kaka
As a senior, I have lived through and with the negative consequences of right-wing policies since the 1980’s. It is very rare to hear commentary today that uses the words ’social democracy’. It makes me so angry that policies for most people such as universal dental care are scorned by today’s politicians because they are so afraid of alienating the rich, right voting, multi-property owning me-first in our society. I fervently hope the younger generation can be motivated to vote against these weak, immoral politicians and change the political direction. I’m not holding my breath.
I hear you, Tony. I'll hold my breath for the both of us. I'm encouraged by the politically aware, socially responsible young people that I know through my young adult children.
💯. It’s rare to hear talk about what the right thing to do is without financial considerations being the first and foremost (and often only) consideration.
But as the great E. F. Schumacher argued, economics is only one of many lenses through which we can make ethical and value based decisions.
"Spending less on public dental care costs reduces the amount of the Government’s operational spending deficit and reduces public borrowing, which in turn reduces interest rates and mortgage rates (all other things not changing)."
Japan would seem to be an example of a country where this statement is not correct.
Maybe we need to change the way monetary policy is carried out, starting by working through the monetary policy implications of the fact that Aotearoa New Zealand is a sovereign currency issuing country.
A topic for the Kaka Project?
Vote Green!
Extending the principle of universal basic / collective services. YES. THANK YOU for saying this.
Raising the bar for everyone. YES!
Doing this doesn't have the same high administration costs of deciding who is eligible, enforcing categories of people. HELLO Nact, isn't reducing beurocracy one of your theme songs? Media should be all over that hypocrisy.
Build infrastructural and financial stability to ensure sustained support for collective services over time. Universal, stigma free, sustainable support.
Seems so obvious because we pretend that we live in a social democracy already.
I love the "but millionaires don't need dental" people turning on people knee-jerk defence, because of course they don't - if society is built on a model that prioritises building private health care facilities that only millionaires can afford to access.
I would argue that the essentials of life are not only PART of a social democracy, they are the very essence of a social democracy. They are the core principles that make up a true democracy.
Take OUT of the market essential services. YES!!! Essential services are too important to be left to the market. Housing market - but one case and point.
By removing essential services from the market, you shrink the role of market values - this is music to my ears.
Market values are too central in the way our society runs. HELLO. 🦋🦋🦋🦋
We need less individualism , less selfishness. Shrinking the role of the market values can build a more caring society.
THIS is the central issue turned irony that dominates the reality of all marginalised peoples who are "othered" by society.
When marginalised people stand up and say "hey society! you are forgetting to include me" priviledged society responds with "how dare you make it all about YOU - what makes you think you deserve special attention"
If everyone is included then you reduce, maybe even remove, the need for people to view their position as superior, and suddenly difference is no longer a threat.
I think this is such an important principle to explore.
If we are going to introduce universal anything, it's is essential that, at the core of ALL policies there is a fundamental, values system based principle that says "this is good for ALL of society."
We have to remove the us and them from policy making, otherwise society will remain in a constant turmoil of the priviledged feeling superior to, and threatened by the... not so priviledged.
And the not so priviledged will always be viewed - by the priviledged - as trouble makers who expect handouts.
Thank you, Bernard and Max. I feel like I dropped 20 pounds this morning.
A real Bridget Jones, "let's face it a bit of a crush now actually" Kafir Aghani and Eleanor Heaney moment.
I needed that.
Thankyou Sarah. A like the Bridget Jones moment line!
We’ve opened this one up immediately for all to read and listen to. Many thanks to paying subscribers.
To paraphrase FDR's old line "Voters won't remember who gave them a benefit, but they will remember who took it away" would serve Labour well. I'd love to see National try and claw universal free dental care back and win re-election once people began to consider this a fundamental benefit.
Universal benefits paid for by broad based taxes are the way to go, rather than hard to administer means tested benefits which ultimately lead to poverty shaming. This strategy has served Scandinavia well.
It's a shame the Labour Party wasted so much of it's political capital - imagine if they used their once 90%+ popularity ratings from 2019 - 2020 and subsequent majority in parliament to push things like this through. I think they'd be in a much stronger position defending their record on delivery while National would be in the tough position of explaining why they wanted to take these new hard won rights away.
I agree Nick. Even with their deteriorating poll results, this was a good opportunity for Labour to win back some support. Alas, they half-assed it again by stopping short of universality. Universal dental care would be about the easiest policy imaginable to defend in an election debate, regardless of the cost. Also, Luxon and National would have had to tread carefully with their criticism of it, or risk appearing callous.
Sure the Greens have a universal dental care policy but they're not realistically going to strip many centrist votes from National - they might just win a few more lefties from Labour.
I think it's also a harder sell for the Greens. If they've got billions spare in the budget, shouldn't they be using it to fight climate change and pollution rather than filling teeth?
More good discussion here, thanks Team Kaka. The question is how do we broaden the engagement, make it more inclusive? As a paying subscriber, I’m pleased to make as much of it as free to everyone as we can. I’m one of the older, reasonably secure participants, as I suspect a number of others here are. I like the cross link with Action Stations. How will we bring more working class people into the kōrero? How will learn to listen to the voice of those bearing the brunt of neoliberalism ?
What is the next service to tackle? I suggest electricity. The failure of the electricity industry to invest in maintenance, build new generation AND meet shows we a better way to guarantee people market is needed. Cut out the many extra layers required to ensure 'smooth' running of the system based on shared public interests (not profit). Also, incentivise community owned power generation to promote resilience (again, something the market won't provide for).
Am so glad to hear your interview with Max, and so impressed with the work that has resulted in Action Station becoming a voice for us all that can't be ignored
Re the graph of sugar consumption per capita why does the US have much higher obesity rates than NZ or Israel if its per capita sugar consumption is lower? Or is the US obesity maybe caused by high-fructose corn syrup in many food products?