Dozens of experts plead in open letter to Government to drop plans for faster speed limits, arguing it will lead to more deaths, higher health costs, extra emissions and very few time saving benefits
On hospitals and staff shortages: Do MPs and their immediate families have to use govt services? Or do they all have private medical healthcare and pay their way to front of the queue?
On that, in the event that an MP ended up in an emergency ward; would they jump the queue, or would they have to wait their turn?
Good questions. I would take a wild guess that many of them have private health insurance and send their kids to private schools.
I would suggest that when becoming an MP they must use the public service and their need must be evaluated just like the rest of us. Also will be allowed only 10 days sick leave.
As I understand it, and in my experience, private hospitals don't do A&E. If you are a victim of one of Simeon Brown's reforms, you'll just go to a public hospital.
Overt frontline culling in health care. Feeling more like a trapped consumer of Luxon's dodgy corporation catering gleefully and daily more to him and his mates instead of a citizen with a govt performing a duty of care. There's nothing stopping him. Thank god at least for journos.
Totally agree Bernard re speed limit increases being unwise.
It's all quite gut-wrenching. Why is a government driven by facts-based policy instead of ideologies and pondering the noisy extremes of its voter base such a fantasy when it should be the norm?
I am betting that most Govt MPs have premium Southern Cross policies. Please open to the public & can we send this directly to Minister Brown & ask for an explanation? I know we are not a country that sues people’s but is there no legal possibility to stop legalisation that endangers people on the roads? Or encourages smoking albeit in mango flavours? If the Government is intent upon dismantling our public health system then where will those who are injured be rehabilitated & those with lung disease go?
Probably my most redeeming feature as a manager was my willingness to say, "I like your idea better". Clearly, none of this government lot was under my tutelage! They just plough on regardless of the evidence against so many of their ideas.
I think part of the speed limit chat is it shouldn’t be about putting them up or putting them down but making sure they are appropriate for the quality and structure of the road and context that the road is in. A lot of older people and possibly drivers trained overseas (I have no reference to compare ) have not had the same risk identification training that younger drivers should have had. A lot of our country roads have nowhere to go if you make a mistake except across into the other side of the road. Heaps of stationary hazards like drainage ditches, trees and cliffs etc let alone moving hazards like other cars..
On the health insurance thing. There are only 120 mps, surely we could divide and conquer and pick up the phone and ring their electorate offices and ask them directly?
I agree this needs to be public knowledge. If MPs have private health insurance voting public has right to know. When folk with private health insurance go to top of list adds to wait (often painful) for folk on public list. ie hip & knee surgery $30000+.
Also loss of mobility compounds living a happy life or a painful one.
Along with the costs that come with Māori ward referenda, reprioritisation of roading projects due to lack of co-funding, Local Water Done Well negotiations/consultations/set-up etc, constant re-writing of planning legislation/NPS/NES...
On a side issue, it's time for those here concerned about this, to send messages to RNZ again about their reporting of the new Curia opinion poll. I have challenged them to ask David Farrar for the questions asked in that latest poll. How were those questions worded to elicit the responses they got?
Just being slightly facetious here, but aren’t disasters (floods, earthquakes etc.) great for GDP? By that logic, everything you framed as a negative impact would be positive for our main economic metric (higher speeds = more crashes = more panel beating, more new cars, more healthcare spend, more insurance etc. etc. etc.) or maybe I should just say, more pain and destruction = more GST.
Funnily, I actually find NZ speed limits to be SO slow that they are dangerous!
Contrary to the points made, my experience out on the roads has been that, coupled with cruise control and an apparent fear of driving, people tend to behave more like zombies out there and alert and astute drivers.
This therefore often causes both road rage as well suicidal manoeuvring e.g whilst trying to come unto a main road from a side street.
Outside commuter traffic most NZ roads are totally empty! In order to drive 30 km on empty roads or 80 km on empty highways one needs to be either stoned or with one's brain (and reflexes) switched off.
In my humble opinion, if people, at those speed limits, still have accidents, it ain't the speed limit.
If hospitals cannot handle the load maybe there is something wrong with funding to hospitals?
Poor choices around things like overtaking are a symptom of people who are blind to the risks that they have in front of them. additionally, it is also important for people who drive slower to be aware of traffic building up behind them and pull over when safe to do so as some of our road users who maybe fighting a terrible case of diarrhea and that need to rush to a bathroom. ( this is the reason I tell the kids when someone overtakes us)
many of the speed changes proposed are in urban areas and not only go against evidence but against what the community wants. In Christchurch there was a city wide consultation about speed reductions because so many communities have requested reductions it was more cost effective to have a city wide one.
Of course that consultation went down the drain with the change of govt.
The open road is misleading in its emptiness. NZ roads are not forgiving and a mistake will be costly. How much time are you going to save by driving 90 instead of 80? Is it worth your life?
Interesting. I have lived in very many countries. 80km speed limit on a highway is unheard of. It is usually 110km. My opinion is that when one goes that slow one can fall asleep. Same as with 30 kms.
There are also not so many, if not any, people running around on the roads here. Most life seems to happen in people’s back gardens. City streets tend to be empty by 8 pm max. So to me the fear of death mentioned is completely disproportionate to the reality of life out on the streets.
... apart from my wife biking to her shift work, my nephew biking home from scouts, etc.
Funny how the streets look empty when you are a distracted 80kg human inside of a 2,000kg vehicle. Maybe the danger imposed onto our streetscape by the dominance of cars has caused them to be empty at 8pm, because they certainly weren't empty when I grew up in Otautahi.
It depends if you have known people that have died from road deaths. In my life time I have known of 4 young children that have died from road accidents. One was my grandson's step sister that was killed by a stock truck near her school. There needs to be an awareness and promotion of safe driving near schools. Simeon Brown was asked by a reporter why he insisted on these safety changes and he said that they had campaigned on it but why? Why would you campaign on more road accidents and deaths. As well as supporting more tobacco products and loosening gun laws. They are also a major distraction.
Having driven extensively in Europe and Australia and a bit in North America, I'd point out that wile our roads may be emptier, they're also overall narrower, windier (both pronunciations), and often in much poorer condition. Emptier doesn't = safer. If the World Bank has a recent report showing that lower speeds improve economic performance, one assumes they were basing it largely on roads that are better than ours so it appears to me to be a logical extrapolation that lower speeds will work as well if not better for us. But this government is not interested in well-researched evidence in any sphere. Witness their actions on smoke free, emissions reduction, harsher sentencing, banning insignia and on and on. Keep up the good work, Bernard. Kia kaha.
Looks like we are back (if we ever left them) in the times when ideology trumped evidence - hard tp trust government to do the right thing for all when what they choose to do is in the face of evidence to the contrary. Doing daft shit leads straight to low trust.
Thanks Bernard. All doom and gloom again. The situation at Waikato Hospital is shocking me. Last Nov went in via ambulance with heart failure arrived at 2pm via ambulance, was taken into A & E and at 4am was taken to a room due to their being no beds until then. Just awful, imagine what it will be like now, scares me. Also experienced 6 hour wait at Thames Hospital in A & E with heart problem in Jan…..
On hospitals and staff shortages: Do MPs and their immediate families have to use govt services? Or do they all have private medical healthcare and pay their way to front of the queue?
On that, in the event that an MP ended up in an emergency ward; would they jump the queue, or would they have to wait their turn?
Much like education, I suspect that they're just as able to use of market-based alternatives as any other NZ resident 🤷🏻♀️
Good questions. I would take a wild guess that many of them have private health insurance and send their kids to private schools.
I would suggest that when becoming an MP they must use the public service and their need must be evaluated just like the rest of us. Also will be allowed only 10 days sick leave.
As I understand it, and in my experience, private hospitals don't do A&E. If you are a victim of one of Simeon Brown's reforms, you'll just go to a public hospital.
Overt frontline culling in health care. Feeling more like a trapped consumer of Luxon's dodgy corporation catering gleefully and daily more to him and his mates instead of a citizen with a govt performing a duty of care. There's nothing stopping him. Thank god at least for journos.
Totally agree Bernard re speed limit increases being unwise.
It's all quite gut-wrenching. Why is a government driven by facts-based policy instead of ideologies and pondering the noisy extremes of its voter base such a fantasy when it should be the norm?
We have what could only be described as a contrarian government. Facts, evidence, whether something actually works - pah!
I am betting that most Govt MPs have premium Southern Cross policies. Please open to the public & can we send this directly to Minister Brown & ask for an explanation? I know we are not a country that sues people’s but is there no legal possibility to stop legalisation that endangers people on the roads? Or encourages smoking albeit in mango flavours? If the Government is intent upon dismantling our public health system then where will those who are injured be rehabilitated & those with lung disease go?
Maybe there a mechanism to sue them? Class action? Would that be possible?
Probably my most redeeming feature as a manager was my willingness to say, "I like your idea better". Clearly, none of this government lot was under my tutelage! They just plough on regardless of the evidence against so many of their ideas.
Perhaps David Seymour as Minister of Regulation could tell Simeon Brown he can't put up the speed limits without legislation.
What? Oh, silly me. David is all in support of people's freedom to go any speed they like.
Speed limits are just regulations, so can be tossed in the bin.
I think part of the speed limit chat is it shouldn’t be about putting them up or putting them down but making sure they are appropriate for the quality and structure of the road and context that the road is in. A lot of older people and possibly drivers trained overseas (I have no reference to compare ) have not had the same risk identification training that younger drivers should have had. A lot of our country roads have nowhere to go if you make a mistake except across into the other side of the road. Heaps of stationary hazards like drainage ditches, trees and cliffs etc let alone moving hazards like other cars..
On the health insurance thing. There are only 120 mps, surely we could divide and conquer and pick up the phone and ring their electorate offices and ask them directly?
I agree this needs to be public knowledge. If MPs have private health insurance voting public has right to know. When folk with private health insurance go to top of list adds to wait (often painful) for folk on public list. ie hip & knee surgery $30000+.
Also loss of mobility compounds living a happy life or a painful one.
ĹGA (local Government) should take the Govt to Court to make them pay for the road speed changes they are forcing onto ratepayers.
Along with the costs that come with Māori ward referenda, reprioritisation of roading projects due to lack of co-funding, Local Water Done Well negotiations/consultations/set-up etc, constant re-writing of planning legislation/NPS/NES...
The analysis has been ignored by the Govt is right up there with 'it's in the coalition agreement
On a side issue, it's time for those here concerned about this, to send messages to RNZ again about their reporting of the new Curia opinion poll. I have challenged them to ask David Farrar for the questions asked in that latest poll. How were those questions worded to elicit the responses they got?
The preferred PM question was most likely worded "who is your preferred Prime Minister".
Agree
Just being slightly facetious here, but aren’t disasters (floods, earthquakes etc.) great for GDP? By that logic, everything you framed as a negative impact would be positive for our main economic metric (higher speeds = more crashes = more panel beating, more new cars, more healthcare spend, more insurance etc. etc. etc.) or maybe I should just say, more pain and destruction = more GST.
💯
True. We calculate earthquake damage into GDP but not the free work (mostly) women do.
Funnily, I actually find NZ speed limits to be SO slow that they are dangerous!
Contrary to the points made, my experience out on the roads has been that, coupled with cruise control and an apparent fear of driving, people tend to behave more like zombies out there and alert and astute drivers.
This therefore often causes both road rage as well suicidal manoeuvring e.g whilst trying to come unto a main road from a side street.
Outside commuter traffic most NZ roads are totally empty! In order to drive 30 km on empty roads or 80 km on empty highways one needs to be either stoned or with one's brain (and reflexes) switched off.
In my humble opinion, if people, at those speed limits, still have accidents, it ain't the speed limit.
If hospitals cannot handle the load maybe there is something wrong with funding to hospitals?
The issue with speed and crashes is the forces on the body in a crash exponentially increase with increased speed.
Agree, I saw the film evidence 20 years ago. For every 10k, more forces on body increase. This is not new evidence is fact.
I suggest: see Bruce Richards comment
Hi Athena,
Poor choices around things like overtaking are a symptom of people who are blind to the risks that they have in front of them. additionally, it is also important for people who drive slower to be aware of traffic building up behind them and pull over when safe to do so as some of our road users who maybe fighting a terrible case of diarrhea and that need to rush to a bathroom. ( this is the reason I tell the kids when someone overtakes us)
So a "reckon" is worth more than evidence. Are you posting on behalf of Simeon ?
many of the speed changes proposed are in urban areas and not only go against evidence but against what the community wants. In Christchurch there was a city wide consultation about speed reductions because so many communities have requested reductions it was more cost effective to have a city wide one.
Of course that consultation went down the drain with the change of govt.
The open road is misleading in its emptiness. NZ roads are not forgiving and a mistake will be costly. How much time are you going to save by driving 90 instead of 80? Is it worth your life?
Interesting. I have lived in very many countries. 80km speed limit on a highway is unheard of. It is usually 110km. My opinion is that when one goes that slow one can fall asleep. Same as with 30 kms.
There are also not so many, if not any, people running around on the roads here. Most life seems to happen in people’s back gardens. City streets tend to be empty by 8 pm max. So to me the fear of death mentioned is completely disproportionate to the reality of life out on the streets.
How many True highways do we have? It's a miniscule number and the length is laughable.
A driver falls asleep when a driver is tired. Speed limit had nothing to do with it and if it does than that driver should not be driving.
City streets might be empty at 8pm. Not sure what it's got to do with safer speeds during the entire day.
I was driving through Central Christchurch on a Saturday. At 30km limit traffic flows much better than it used to be when it was 50.
... apart from my wife biking to her shift work, my nephew biking home from scouts, etc.
Funny how the streets look empty when you are a distracted 80kg human inside of a 2,000kg vehicle. Maybe the danger imposed onto our streetscape by the dominance of cars has caused them to be empty at 8pm, because they certainly weren't empty when I grew up in Otautahi.
It depends if you have known people that have died from road deaths. In my life time I have known of 4 young children that have died from road accidents. One was my grandson's step sister that was killed by a stock truck near her school. There needs to be an awareness and promotion of safe driving near schools. Simeon Brown was asked by a reporter why he insisted on these safety changes and he said that they had campaigned on it but why? Why would you campaign on more road accidents and deaths. As well as supporting more tobacco products and loosening gun laws. They are also a major distraction.
Yes, there is something wrong with funding of hospitals.
Having driven extensively in Europe and Australia and a bit in North America, I'd point out that wile our roads may be emptier, they're also overall narrower, windier (both pronunciations), and often in much poorer condition. Emptier doesn't = safer. If the World Bank has a recent report showing that lower speeds improve economic performance, one assumes they were basing it largely on roads that are better than ours so it appears to me to be a logical extrapolation that lower speeds will work as well if not better for us. But this government is not interested in well-researched evidence in any sphere. Witness their actions on smoke free, emissions reduction, harsher sentencing, banning insignia and on and on. Keep up the good work, Bernard. Kia kaha.
Looks like we are back (if we ever left them) in the times when ideology trumped evidence - hard tp trust government to do the right thing for all when what they choose to do is in the face of evidence to the contrary. Doing daft shit leads straight to low trust.
Thanks Bernard. All doom and gloom again. The situation at Waikato Hospital is shocking me. Last Nov went in via ambulance with heart failure arrived at 2pm via ambulance, was taken into A & E and at 4am was taken to a room due to their being no beds until then. Just awful, imagine what it will be like now, scares me. Also experienced 6 hour wait at Thames Hospital in A & E with heart problem in Jan…..