Government shocks scientists and universities by halving funding for blue-sky research, raising fears it will worsen the brain drain to rest of OECD, which spends double on R&D that spent by NZ
News to me that Collins cares about science funding given she scrapped the Wellington Science City plan to build hubs specifically for the type of research she says she now wants here. Or was another chance for this Government to stick a pin in Wellington the point of that move?
Hello, sorry to add to the stats, but I too am leaving for Australia next month. My exit poll response would say it's due to work availability, wages and weather. And I'm in my 40's.
My partner and I are also moving back to Australia. We own a house there and I work for an Aussie org anyway remotely. But the main reason for us is the health system here. We'll be gone by the end of next year.
I’ve been trying to rack my brains for a retort to this madness Bernard. I mean, how do you get the coalition to stop? How do you get them to listen? Luxon is spinning so hard trying to justify his poor decision making and leadership that he can’t see or hear anything, or won’t. His ‘what I’d say to you…’ deflection strategy has worn thin. Here’s what I came up with. Inspired by the petition to remove Starmer I believe we should take a leaf out of the Brit’s playbook and send a powerful message to Luxon and his increasingly unpopular government. Here’s the change.org petitions run against Starmer as an example. As an aside, Grace Blakeley’s prediction on Starmer as PM have turned out to be prophetic. Back to the petition. I’m ready to sign. https://www.change.org/p/demand-change-keir-starmer-step-down-nowhttps://www.change.org/p/stop-the-uk-family-farm-tax-protect-our-rural-heritage-communities
This government truly believes that what its doing was agreed to by kiwis, it was elected to power after all. They've already listened, and now they're actioning.
It's beyond depressing news... as your tone of voice today implies. This news is soul-draining as a scientist and the dad of a recently university-graduated kid. I came as an immigrant over 30 years ago for this country's opportunities; a generation later, my NZ-born kids are talking about leaving... breaks my heart
It most certainly gets worse than this if the Science System Advisory Group leaks are anything to go by. Tip of the neoliberal iceberg from this government.
It's not rude Bernard - as a small business owner that's being shafted every which way at the moment (even while doing Science that Our Supreme Dear Leader deems worthy) is testament that they don't care about small business; they care for their Hedge Fund managers overseas, and their Rich List donors that live in their gated communities, removed from reality....
That was an emotional Kaka this morning Bernard. Thank you for your caring about this country Your commentary should be broadcast far and wide. There are so many who are completely unaware of the tragedy that is happening in full sight but they can’t see it.
How are we going to get better social policy without investment in humanities and social sciences research? I thought that was what “social investment” was supposed to be all about. But even investment in physics, chemistry, maths, engineering and biomedical sciences won’t really move the economic dial without a strategy that focuses the effort and also takes in education, training, innovation/commercialisation, immigration, industry policy, and other related policies.
It's in the name. social investment is commodification of social services. It's purpose is to turn social outcomes into something the government can sell to a private market.
Very surprised by the announcement of the cut of humanities and social sciences funding via the Marsden Fund. Might well see subject areas, such as psychology, pivoting to ensure classification as a science subject rather than a social science subject. If this is the case, there may be ramifications for the types of psychology taught at the tertiary level - if tertiary teaching is research-led, and if research tends towards the (hard) sciences ...
As for figures of homelessness, the data is likely to have missed many people who might be considered homeless. First, there are many people who 'couch surf' who may not be included. Second, there is a potentially large cohort of rural homeless who are often ignored in official collections.
I really can't believe the bare-faced Philistine nature of this government.
For a start, growth in the economy cannot be the only goal. Creatively finding a way to curb damage to the environment while we make a survivable living is an equally worthy goal. Second (as I know from my study and experience), understanding human behaviour in all its manifestations is ultimately just as important as science and tech.
It is not all psychology, as a grad I just looked. The cognitive science and neuroscience is still funded, but not industrial and organisational psychology and health psychology….because they are social sciences….i just want to write unprintable words at the moment. Aware that with university funding not keeping up with inflation the brightest minds will be escaping as fast as they can, as they cannot get scholarships here. They will leave and the country will be the poorer for it.
Indeed! It's now reached the point where they are not even bothered to hide their worst worker-hostile discharge in Friday-evening-before-long-weekend announcements; they're confidently crapping on us in full, midweek, view now!
Bernard - where did you get the info that funding was halved? The Humanities and Social Sciences panels are being closed, but I haven't seen any indication of a funding cut like that. I'm a research scientist and deeply involved in discussions about the science system and no-one else has mentioned this. Our read of the news is that the money is the same, but it will be split across a smaller number of research topics.
Sorry premature enter! But yes, this means the blue sky research funding is halved, and the other half just for some reason replicates funds administered by MBIE - which already exist and includes criteria for economic value
I agree that the 2024 Marsden Fund Terms of Reference don’t explicitly cut funding for Social Sciences or Humanities. But when you compare the 2017 and 2024 wording, it’s clear there’s a real risk this could happen for 2025 and beyond. Adding to the concern, the Marsden Fund has already delayed the December 2024 application round because of Minister Collins’ changes to the terms.
The 2024 ToR now focus heavily on research with clear economic, environmental, or health benefits, with half the funding set aside for projects expected to boost the economy. While Social Sciences and Humanities aren’t excluded outright, they could lose out as their contributions don’t always fit neatly into these priorities. Back in 2017, the fund took a broader approach, supporting a diverse range of research without needing immediate outcomes. This shift feels like it’s sidelining fields that are critical for addressing complex challenges in Aotearoa.
I think halved is a mild exaggeration but the comments here aren’t wrong, and because the half that targets economic benefits now duplicates another funding mechanism (Endeavour Smart Ideas) we can guess that there’s an intent to do away with on or the other…
"To give you some idea of its impacts, in the Marsden Fund the social sciences include public health, nursing, education, psychology, urban design and environmental studies, Māori studies and indigenous studies, human geography, social anthropology, public policy, political science and architecture."
Thanks Bernard. I had only heard of the Humanities and Social Sciences too- see Simin G comment. Short termism and the 22 billion for tax cuts and landlord tax breaks are a constant thorn. Mr Luxon and Ms Willis keep getting away with saying the tax cuts had worked in helping the country. Yesterday morning as Corin interviewed Luxon, my text to RNZ: 'Luxon hasn't helped break the back of living costs at all for NZers under stress. He got away with saying that twice just now. Second time Corin said 'all good' (although it was mainly so Corin could change the subject, but was disturbing.)The 22 bill tax cuts and landlord tax benefits helped the least needy.'
Most infuriating..
Re the ag emissions review the govt may well be trying to avoid meeting the important emission targets at all but that particular mode is tricky of course.
Will it involve our joining the UK and just feeding cows, Bovear, containing the highly toxic 3 nitroxypropanol, 3 NOP, arguably not the best way to mitigate climate change.
As mentioned previously, experts' claim levels of it, which they acknowledge is a highly toxic organic compound, and its metabolites are not high enough in tissues and milk to cause health problems in the cows or those who drink milk or eat meat from them.
Scepticism of such claims is warranted given the given govts want to avoid using other measures of meeting their climate change targets.
News to me that Collins cares about science funding given she scrapped the Wellington Science City plan to build hubs specifically for the type of research she says she now wants here. Or was another chance for this Government to stick a pin in Wellington the point of that move?
Hello, sorry to add to the stats, but I too am leaving for Australia next month. My exit poll response would say it's due to work availability, wages and weather. And I'm in my 40's.
We can fix the weather 😂
My partner and I are also moving back to Australia. We own a house there and I work for an Aussie org anyway remotely. But the main reason for us is the health system here. We'll be gone by the end of next year.
Sorry to hear you're moving but hopefully you can continue to subscribe to The Kaka and share your insights.
I will. We're hoping we'll be able to return again in the future.
I’ve been trying to rack my brains for a retort to this madness Bernard. I mean, how do you get the coalition to stop? How do you get them to listen? Luxon is spinning so hard trying to justify his poor decision making and leadership that he can’t see or hear anything, or won’t. His ‘what I’d say to you…’ deflection strategy has worn thin. Here’s what I came up with. Inspired by the petition to remove Starmer I believe we should take a leaf out of the Brit’s playbook and send a powerful message to Luxon and his increasingly unpopular government. Here’s the change.org petitions run against Starmer as an example. As an aside, Grace Blakeley’s prediction on Starmer as PM have turned out to be prophetic. Back to the petition. I’m ready to sign. https://www.change.org/p/demand-change-keir-starmer-step-down-now https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-uk-family-farm-tax-protect-our-rural-heritage-communities
This government truly believes that what its doing was agreed to by kiwis, it was elected to power after all. They've already listened, and now they're actioning.
The polls beg to differ.
It's beyond depressing news... as your tone of voice today implies. This news is soul-draining as a scientist and the dad of a recently university-graduated kid. I came as an immigrant over 30 years ago for this country's opportunities; a generation later, my NZ-born kids are talking about leaving... breaks my heart
It most certainly gets worse than this if the Science System Advisory Group leaks are anything to go by. Tip of the neoliberal iceberg from this government.
It's not rude Bernard - as a small business owner that's being shafted every which way at the moment (even while doing Science that Our Supreme Dear Leader deems worthy) is testament that they don't care about small business; they care for their Hedge Fund managers overseas, and their Rich List donors that live in their gated communities, removed from reality....
That was an emotional Kaka this morning Bernard. Thank you for your caring about this country Your commentary should be broadcast far and wide. There are so many who are completely unaware of the tragedy that is happening in full sight but they can’t see it.
Mōrena Bernard - you nailed it. Again.
How are we going to get better social policy without investment in humanities and social sciences research? I thought that was what “social investment” was supposed to be all about. But even investment in physics, chemistry, maths, engineering and biomedical sciences won’t really move the economic dial without a strategy that focuses the effort and also takes in education, training, innovation/commercialisation, immigration, industry policy, and other related policies.
It's in the name. social investment is commodification of social services. It's purpose is to turn social outcomes into something the government can sell to a private market.
Wow hadn’t thought about it like that but now so obvious
Very surprised by the announcement of the cut of humanities and social sciences funding via the Marsden Fund. Might well see subject areas, such as psychology, pivoting to ensure classification as a science subject rather than a social science subject. If this is the case, there may be ramifications for the types of psychology taught at the tertiary level - if tertiary teaching is research-led, and if research tends towards the (hard) sciences ...
As for figures of homelessness, the data is likely to have missed many people who might be considered homeless. First, there are many people who 'couch surf' who may not be included. Second, there is a potentially large cohort of rural homeless who are often ignored in official collections.
Adding to Bill Rosenberg,
I really can't believe the bare-faced Philistine nature of this government.
For a start, growth in the economy cannot be the only goal. Creatively finding a way to curb damage to the environment while we make a survivable living is an equally worthy goal. Second (as I know from my study and experience), understanding human behaviour in all its manifestations is ultimately just as important as science and tech.
Ralph Chapman
It is not all psychology, as a grad I just looked. The cognitive science and neuroscience is still funded, but not industrial and organisational psychology and health psychology….because they are social sciences….i just want to write unprintable words at the moment. Aware that with university funding not keeping up with inflation the brightest minds will be escaping as fast as they can, as they cannot get scholarships here. They will leave and the country will be the poorer for it.
When you think it cant get any worse, it does!
Indeed! It's now reached the point where they are not even bothered to hide their worst worker-hostile discharge in Friday-evening-before-long-weekend announcements; they're confidently crapping on us in full, midweek, view now!
Bernard - where did you get the info that funding was halved? The Humanities and Social Sciences panels are being closed, but I haven't seen any indication of a funding cut like that. I'm a research scientist and deeply involved in discussions about the science system and no-one else has mentioned this. Our read of the news is that the money is the same, but it will be split across a smaller number of research topics.
Only 50% is now for pure bluesky research, the other 50% must have shown “economic value”
Sorry premature enter! But yes, this means the blue sky research funding is halved, and the other half just for some reason replicates funds administered by MBIE - which already exist and includes criteria for economic value
I agree that the 2024 Marsden Fund Terms of Reference don’t explicitly cut funding for Social Sciences or Humanities. But when you compare the 2017 and 2024 wording, it’s clear there’s a real risk this could happen for 2025 and beyond. Adding to the concern, the Marsden Fund has already delayed the December 2024 application round because of Minister Collins’ changes to the terms.
The 2024 ToR now focus heavily on research with clear economic, environmental, or health benefits, with half the funding set aside for projects expected to boost the economy. While Social Sciences and Humanities aren’t excluded outright, they could lose out as their contributions don’t always fit neatly into these priorities. Back in 2017, the fund took a broader approach, supporting a diverse range of research without needing immediate outcomes. This shift feels like it’s sidelining fields that are critical for addressing complex challenges in Aotearoa.
I think halved is a mild exaggeration but the comments here aren’t wrong, and because the half that targets economic benefits now duplicates another funding mechanism (Endeavour Smart Ideas) we can guess that there’s an intent to do away with on or the other…
Thank you for your mahi Bernard. It was obviously hard this morning. Have you had any time for our 2026 project?
Article by Anne Salmond in Newsroom this morning.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/12/05/anne-salmond-govt-de-funding-the-mind/
This paragraph is so distressing:
"To give you some idea of its impacts, in the Marsden Fund the social sciences include public health, nursing, education, psychology, urban design and environmental studies, Māori studies and indigenous studies, human geography, social anthropology, public policy, political science and architecture."
Another callous feature, not an ignorant bug.
As an ex Physics teacher (and Theory of Knowledge (IB) this government is so narrow minded as to what is important for NZ society.
Thanks Bernard. I had only heard of the Humanities and Social Sciences too- see Simin G comment. Short termism and the 22 billion for tax cuts and landlord tax breaks are a constant thorn. Mr Luxon and Ms Willis keep getting away with saying the tax cuts had worked in helping the country. Yesterday morning as Corin interviewed Luxon, my text to RNZ: 'Luxon hasn't helped break the back of living costs at all for NZers under stress. He got away with saying that twice just now. Second time Corin said 'all good' (although it was mainly so Corin could change the subject, but was disturbing.)The 22 bill tax cuts and landlord tax benefits helped the least needy.'
Most infuriating..
Re the ag emissions review the govt may well be trying to avoid meeting the important emission targets at all but that particular mode is tricky of course.
Will it involve our joining the UK and just feeding cows, Bovear, containing the highly toxic 3 nitroxypropanol, 3 NOP, arguably not the best way to mitigate climate change.
As mentioned previously, experts' claim levels of it, which they acknowledge is a highly toxic organic compound, and its metabolites are not high enough in tissues and milk to cause health problems in the cows or those who drink milk or eat meat from them.
Scepticism of such claims is warranted given the given govts want to avoid using other measures of meeting their climate change targets.
The UK public are wary:
2 hrs ago https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rjdgre3vpo.amp
The NIH, scientifically sound, description
of 3 NOP https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/3-Nitrooxypropanol
NZ EPA late last year allowed for testing of Bovear use in cattle. Apparently licence for use in commercial farming has not been given yet.