Bernard Hickey & Peter Bale chat with regular guests Cathrine Dyer & Robert Patman about climate & geopolitics, including the fallout from Trump's tariff shock
I was one of the protesters up on the Denniston Plateau this past weekend and wanted to clarify a few things.
Firstly – this was not a Greenpeace protest. It was organised by a group of concerned people who deeply care about the Plateau and its unique environment. Members of Climate Liberation Aotearoa and 350 Aotearoa were involved, alongside many others acting in coalition.
I’m a big fan of this Substack and podcast, and I really value the conversations you spark. That said, I was disappointed to hear Shane Jones’ comments repeated without critique, especially considering the misinformation in his press release.
Jones stated:
“I’m not sure if they have realised New Zealand is probably the only country transitioning from renewables to coal as Kiwis face down an economic downturn and rising power prices at the onset of winter.”
This is misleading on two fronts:
He fails to mention that his own Government has committed to doubling renewable energy by 2050. The real issue isn’t the protest—it’s the fact there is no credible plan to get us there.
The coal from the Stockton mine is not used for domestic electricity at all. It is 100% exported, primarily for use in industrial steel production offshore.
Jones talks about coal royalties and the legacy of mining, but what our communities need are futures, not just memories. A just transition means real investment in sustainable, resilient jobs—not clinging to an industry in decline while the climate warms and global markets move on.
On the topic of royalties: while this mine helps line the pockets of Bathurst’s foreign shareholders, less than 1% of their revenue is invested back into the local community, and less than 10% goes to New Zealanders through taxes, royalties, or fees.
To make it worse, the public is already footing the bill. Last year, the Government spent more taxpayer money cleaning up Bathurst’s Stockton mine than it earned in royalties from all mining in Aotearoa combined.
Thanks for your work and for creating a space where these conversations can be had. I hope future coverage can reflect the fuller picture and hold powerful voices to account.
I also think we should consider taxes and royalties separately. Royalties are closer to a cost that coal miners pay for the coal itself and without the royalty payments the product itself would be essentially free. Corporate tax is a more of an equity mechanism paid on profits earned.
I really appreciate the podcast, but wish Catherine would be able to speak with fewer interruptions. Also would it be possible at some point for Bernard to interview her on why she apparently supports an antigrowth position as opposed to green growth?
I think it would be fair to say that Labour's 'overspending' was all about decades of under-funding and was the beginning of putting us on track to the appropriate funding for our public services.
If our own government has no confidence in NZ (refusal to invest in NZ, and quite frankly, their appalling rhetoric about NZ and NZers that everyone - the entire world, heard comming out of Luxons mouth last year) then why on earth would anyone else have confidence in our country?
I'm yet to receive an answer as to why the number of public servants peior to covid is what we need to aspire to.
Was it enough? Looking at the shortage in health, education, police etc. I'd say no. Population have grown. So why reduce the numbers when all the evidence is telling us that we should increase it.
Good show.
I looked up the Renault 4 Peter mentioned near the end of the show. Cool car & a cool story.
Cheers
From one car enthusiast to another
https://www.staugustine.com/story/lifestyle/faith/2013/09/20/mini-popemobile/16135771007/
I was one of the protesters up on the Denniston Plateau this past weekend and wanted to clarify a few things.
Firstly – this was not a Greenpeace protest. It was organised by a group of concerned people who deeply care about the Plateau and its unique environment. Members of Climate Liberation Aotearoa and 350 Aotearoa were involved, alongside many others acting in coalition.
I’m a big fan of this Substack and podcast, and I really value the conversations you spark. That said, I was disappointed to hear Shane Jones’ comments repeated without critique, especially considering the misinformation in his press release.
Jones stated:
“I’m not sure if they have realised New Zealand is probably the only country transitioning from renewables to coal as Kiwis face down an economic downturn and rising power prices at the onset of winter.”
This is misleading on two fronts:
He fails to mention that his own Government has committed to doubling renewable energy by 2050. The real issue isn’t the protest—it’s the fact there is no credible plan to get us there.
The coal from the Stockton mine is not used for domestic electricity at all. It is 100% exported, primarily for use in industrial steel production offshore.
Jones talks about coal royalties and the legacy of mining, but what our communities need are futures, not just memories. A just transition means real investment in sustainable, resilient jobs—not clinging to an industry in decline while the climate warms and global markets move on.
On the topic of royalties: while this mine helps line the pockets of Bathurst’s foreign shareholders, less than 1% of their revenue is invested back into the local community, and less than 10% goes to New Zealanders through taxes, royalties, or fees.
To make it worse, the public is already footing the bill. Last year, the Government spent more taxpayer money cleaning up Bathurst’s Stockton mine than it earned in royalties from all mining in Aotearoa combined.
Thanks for your work and for creating a space where these conversations can be had. I hope future coverage can reflect the fuller picture and hold powerful voices to account.
Thanks for the context, yes I did find the Boys comments about this somewhat puzzling.
Good point re export Alva.
I also think we should consider taxes and royalties separately. Royalties are closer to a cost that coal miners pay for the coal itself and without the royalty payments the product itself would be essentially free. Corporate tax is a more of an equity mechanism paid on profits earned.
@Peter’s chips sound delicious!!!
I really appreciate the podcast, but wish Catherine would be able to speak with fewer interruptions. Also would it be possible at some point for Bernard to interview her on why she apparently supports an antigrowth position as opposed to green growth?
Agree on both points!
I think it would be fair to say that Labour's 'overspending' was all about decades of under-funding and was the beginning of putting us on track to the appropriate funding for our public services.
If our own government has no confidence in NZ (refusal to invest in NZ, and quite frankly, their appalling rhetoric about NZ and NZers that everyone - the entire world, heard comming out of Luxons mouth last year) then why on earth would anyone else have confidence in our country?
I'm yet to receive an answer as to why the number of public servants peior to covid is what we need to aspire to.
Was it enough? Looking at the shortage in health, education, police etc. I'd say no. Population have grown. So why reduce the numbers when all the evidence is telling us that we should increase it.
The number of public servants pre-COVID was arrived at by following 9 long years of National Coalition attacks on public servants.